Talk:Archives/Grant/Wikimedia/Startup (2011)

Info on Wikimedia Chapter Grants

The grant must align with this mission statement.
May range from USD 500 to 25,000.
Require monthly progress reporting once approved.
Chapter grants page

Example approved grants of this nature

Comments on the proposal

Of the three items in the proposal, I can only support the one for web hosting during the first year. Even there, we should first be able to first explore other sources of funding before seeking those that have strings attached.

The Webconferencing proposal is a waste of money as long as suitable free alternatives are available. We are only six directors, and most decisions can be made on wiki in full public openness.

Paying to send someone to Wikimania should not be our option until we have built up adequate funds of our own. Anyone seeking assistance to attend Wikimania should be advised of the existing Wikimania scholarship programme.

A more appropriate use of travel subsidies would be to gather Wiki Canada directors and other key personnel at a mutually agreed location in or near Canada at least once a year. Eclecticology 14:21, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

I am open to suggestions on a free voice enabled online meeting solution that is accessible.
Unfortunately it is too late to apply for scholarships for Wikimania 2011. This would be a way for use to ensure that more directors have had the opportunity to meet the community.
I agree we should endeavor to meet in person, but I'm not certain I support doing this before the next AGM, as I would like us all to meet in person for the AGM. James and I recently met in Berlin. My understanding is that the BC Directors will be meeting this month. I'm sure Benoit, Jeff and myself could arrange something near Toronto/Montreal. It's not perfect, but it does allow us to meet each other without incurring great expense. Alan.ca 22:23, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

I agree with spending on the website, we need a relyable server.
The webconferencing does seem expensive. However, I think that voice meetings are important. Skype is free, but if some people can't use it and it is causing accessibility issues, then I guess we have to get a tool that allows people to phone in. Whenever we have our next general meeting, it would be nice if any number of new people could join our conversation. If there is a free way to do this, great, if not, this seems like a reasonable thing to request from the WMF.
I think that it is important to have someone at inter-chapter meetings, including Wikimania. Networking is important. Ideally, people who would be going anyway could represent us, but a four-day trip trip to the Middle East is a bit out of the price range that any of us can reasonably be asked to pay, so funding seems appropriate. We should have applied for a scholarship, but it's too late now. If there is a chance that the WMF will help cover the cost of sending someone, I think that it is worth asking.
I agree that we should eventually meet eachother in person. However, we are slowly meeting eachother one-by-one at international events and from our own traveling within Canada. If we ever do fund an in-person meeting, I think that it should be part of a larger event to which we invite other local wikimedians. --Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:05, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

I plan to go to Haifa anyway, but it would be very useful to have more than one Canadian present.
Having our in-person directors' meetings in conjunction with local meetings is something to be encouraged. In addition to getting us together it will help the locals feel that they are part of something bigger. Eclecticology 03:25, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

I agree that it would be a good idea to have a teleconference and in person meetings concurrently. It would mean that we would not be able to meet at a comfy bagel place though and would end up in a conference room somewhere.
I agree that it would be ideal to have either Jeff or Benoit go to Haifa with you Ray. I do not think asking for money from the WMF is unreasonable. The two of them have both done a great deal for the movement.
WRT meeting I think we should stick with voice meeting ( for board meetings anyway ) as this is the medium that the rest of the corporate world uses. Skype worked fine for 7 or 8 people but I am concerned about it not working well for larger numbers. If we wish to makes these meeting open to anyone to listen in ( which I think would be a good idea ) we would need something better.
I expect to meet in person in Vancouver a couple of times a year anyway but hope we can communicate on wiki effectively most of the time.--Doc James 04:06, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

Promotional items

A few of the board members have spoken about business cards and other promotional items. I added a $500.00 line for this purpose in the grant application. I need to see some proposals on how this would be used or I will need to remove it. Alan.ca 08:54, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

Business cards, letterhead, envelopes and membership cards are all useful, but I can't see the pencils as meaningful for this kind of online enterprise. Enough of the useful stuff should come in for less than $200. Eclecticology 14:06, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

I agree with Ray; we can design simple but professional cards and letterhead based on free templates and then print out enough for our few meetings for $200. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 01:05, 13 April 2011 (EDT)

Can someone please give an example of how the amount would be spent. For example, Ray suggested $200.00 would cover it, if he or someone else could give some dollar values on what it would be spent on that would be helpful. Please keep in mind, this will be an 18 month grant. Alan.ca 03:12, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

Being able to give out pencils to University students promoting Wikipedia I think would be a great idea. 1000 pencils a $190 [1]--Doc James 18:28, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

Here is a site that sells business cards $39 per 100 * 7 = $273 [2]--Doc James 02:30, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

For other items, Wikimédia France open a online shop for free :

Boutique Wikimédia France (main site)
If we were to promote the sale of the kind of swag that WM-FR is selling, how much would come back to WM-CA? Eclecticology 13:25, 16 April 2011 (EDT)
I just looked at the Staples website and they have $39.99 for 500 cards. Can we stick to the essentials. How many of us really need business cards? Eclecticology 13:51, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

All of us need business cards. We need to sell Wikimedia Canada and we need to sell Wikimedia projects. Our main goal is not outreach to people already editing. This can be done perfectly well with Wiki Projects. We exist to do stuff that requires a real identity behind it. Thus we need to have a professional appearance. Benoit has done a great job with the website but we also need stationary. When I am writing to Dean's of medical school across Canada I need something professional. We need to be taken seriously.--Doc James 04:30, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Medical student outreach

I have added a line for $1500 for medical student outreach. Myself and three other Canadian physicians among others recently published this article [3] promoting Wikipedia. We wish to present some of this data to 4 medical schools across Canada (UBC, U of T, McMaster, Queens) in combination with a article writing competition / scholarship (funding by me). Have been in discussion with UBC and they are interested in the project. Monies will be required for travel and promotional items. This will be a pilot with success determined by the amount of high quality medical content created.--Doc James 03:01, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

Various items

1. Travel to Wikimania depends on one of Jeff or Benoit wanting to go. If neither wants to go or is available to go this is a non-starter.

I have spoken with Jeff, he is interested. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

I am interested. In case we get the money and I am selected as the representative, I have already made a request to have that week kept free in my schedule. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

2. Why are we asking for website hosting for 20 months? Anything more than 1-year should depend on a realistic evaluation of our revenues in that time, and should not unduly encumber a future executive.

20 months covers us until the end of fiscal year 2012, this grant is designed to ensure the basics are covered, plus two outreach items. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

This seems like a reasonable amount of time to have our basic needs covered. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

By this time next year we will have had a new AGM and probably added new directors. We should also have a better grasp on our revenue potential. It's even remotely possible that we may need more bandwidth. We just don't have the fact to substantiate any moves beyond one year. Eclecticology 15:06, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

3. We do not have the traffic to warrant elaborate cryptographic measures; this can wait until next year.

Owning a site cert is not related to site traffic, but site security. This is essential if we will be collecting information using the web site, which is where the the site is headed. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

Agree with Alan; if we want to ask for personal information and have a link to Paypal, we should be secure. Looking trustworthy is very important. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

I raised this point with Brion Vibber of WMF, and his view was that this could be done for $50 not $500. Eclecticology 15:06, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

4. I still see no lasting benefit to going ahead with teleconferencing tools. We are only six.

I understand you are not a supporter of this item, I can only say I am open to your alternative suggestions, but I have not seen one presented that I can supported at this juncture. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

The teleconferencing tools are, indeed, expensive. We'll need something like this a year from now when we have our next AGM. Until then, I would be fine with a free alternative, but not everyone can use Skype, so we need something that people can phone into. It should also be noted that this could be used by any board member who wants to host a meeting with other people for WMC-related maters, so it's a good way to promote outreach. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Agree that this will be needed for the AGM. I guess the question is do we wish the ability for other to get involved with voice meetings sooner?--Doc James 04:38, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

As long as we are small, free alternatives are to be preferred. Eclecticology 15:06, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

5. What target are we trying to sway with the swag. If we want to involve people in editing we would do best to involve the existing Wikimedians in Canada, and they are online. Apart from membership cards, which Jeff should be able to have printed locally in Edmonton, the only short term printing need that I see would be for a promotional pamphlet like what Benoit has designed.

The promo item is to give us a small cash reserve to address this issue as the need arises. It is not my intention to spend it immediately, but I do expect $500 minimum will be needed over the next 20 months. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

This does seem a bit high, although I wouldn't know how much an organization like us spends on promotion. I do now that comparable organizations hand out a lot of pens with websites on them. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

This leads to the question: Is there any fact based data to show how effective handing out swag is at generating participation? Wikipedia is already well known, so putting the web address on a pen is not likely to accomplish much. Eclecticology 15:06, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

6. The medical student outreach is premature. While WM-CA is still young I would prefer to see this idea subjected to a cost-benefit analysis.

The budget is mainly to cover the flight costs of James to Toronto. We intend to make presentations at 4 universities. For this cost, I think it's worth trying to see what we get from it. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

I do agree that our grant application should have a link to a page with a solid proposal for this project. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

This is the primary reason why I am involved with Wikimedia Canada. This is neither premature nor requires a cost benefit analysis. The world needs better access to reliable health information. Canada has been before a leader in medicine (think universal health care from Saskatchewan). This I hope will be a way to improve access for the world.--Doc James 04:34, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

I don't think that we should be conflating the very important objectives which you raise with the potential benefits of this specific proposal, nor for that matter with the very thorny funding issues in Canadian medical politics. The proposal can only lead to improving a handful of articles at best in a very wide medical field; we can do much better than that. I don't even think that a $1,000 scholarship will do much. After all, how far can a student go with $1,000? And I will only mention the original research police in passing. We really need a better understanding of what motivates people, and for our purposes that may even be something less materialistic that scholarships. Eclecticology 15:06, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

7. Apart from the Wikimania item we could probably do quite well with a grant under $2,500.

As for the reasons provided for your other points, I think 2500 is not enough. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

8. I would very much prefer that we not start off with a dependency on grants for our basic operations. For Year 2 we should be prepared to fund all of our operations with our own revenues, and by Year 3 we should be able to put money into more special projects.

I would prefer that we had money to operate. I think its important for us to engage in outreach activities and build awareness of Wikimedia Canada immediately. Our charity will need to apply for many grants in the future and starting now with a small grant is a critical exercise for our team to work through. Alan.ca 15:29, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

I had assumed that organizations like ours got most of their revenue from grants. I would be surprised if we were able to get this kind of money on our own within a year. Jeffery Nichols (Arctic.gnome) (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Over the years basic Wikimedia funding has been primarily dependent on personal donations more than grants. $20,000 in the first year with any reasonable effort of a fund drive, and without the benefit of charitable status is well within possibility. In the first full year after becoming a charity more than $100,000 in donations would be a reasonable amount to expect. WM-UK has just announced its first full time employee, after only a couple years in existence. Beyond this first year startup we should look at linking grants to clearly identified projects. With fiscal autonomy we will have much more flexibility in what we can do as a Canadian project. Eclecticology 15:06, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Eclecticology 14:48, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

Grant Approved - May 9 2011

An email was received today from Winifred Olliff approving this grant. The following conditions were listed:

By accepting these funds, you are agreeing to the following reporting requirements,

Receipts (or documentation) of all expenses that will paid or reimbursed by this grant must be kept on file by the Project Lead in case of the need for review of spending and provided to WMF at the time your report is due.
If you were able to achieve your proposed activity under budget, WMF will require that you return unused funds or submit a request to re-allocate the remaining funds to other mission activities.
A report on the funded activities must be publicly posted through the template provided at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Index no later than 3 months after the end date of the grant. Please notify us by e-mail when the grant report has been posted.
If the project requires extension past the estimated end date submitted on the proposal, a project extension request must be submitted within 3 weeks of the end date projected on the proposal.

Alan.ca 00:24, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

All sounds very reasonable. --Doc James 01:37, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

Since I have been named project lead, I need to know whether they are demanding original documentation, or whether they will be satisfied with copies. I am quite satisfied to make payments based on facsimiles, but if they want originals that requires a different document collection strategy. Eclecticology 07:10, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

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